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Kim’s Kitchen
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9785		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kim [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well Folks,

I decided to do a little experimentation with a cheaper AA Lutzii top. I have read here (the OLF) and there (the forum with the "S") about cooking your tops at 200f for an hour and a bit in the oven.

This process is argued by some to reap all kinds of benefits. Some of which include, setting the pitch, assist in the stabilising of the wood against future movement in adverse conditions, ageing the tone wood to acquire that vintage tone straight out the box, increasing stiffness, crystallising the sap to prevent gassing off under the finish thereby preventing sink back later, gett'in ya high when ya smok'in da salmon, increasing the "Q" rating??....you get the idea.

Anyhow,lets just go with the stabilising thing cause Taylor do it for this reason and even Mario fessed up to do'in it a while back to stabilise the wood so I thought I would give it a go too. (see Mario, we do listen, please feel free to chime in here and give me a serve, I miss ya )

First I sanded both halves of the plate down to 3.5mm (yeah I know, you should cook before you sand but this would not suit my experiment) this allowed me to shoot a very accurate joint that candled to perfection. The two halves were then stickered out in the oven at 200F for 1.5hrs then allowed to cool gradually with the oven door ajar.

The result? Two bit of wood that looked surprisingly similar to those I started with. However, that perfectly candled joint showed just under a 16th of an inch gap along the joint even after 3 days to acclimatize outside of the oven.

Early opinion? The wood moved. Better now than when glued up and subjected to adverse conditions I say.

Did it sound different? A little maybe when still fresh out the oven but has now returned to it's old self I think.

Would I do it again? Yep, just in case I come across some that makes me giggle when I open the oven door. And besides, the movement thing was interesting and the gassing off thing seems to make sense as well.

Any images? No, just go out to your shed and look at your own spruce

Cheers

Kim

Author:  Alain Desforges [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kim, weren't you supposed to cook them first, then join them? Just asking as I don't remember the original thread...

Interesting none the less. So it did move under heat...

Secondly, is that signature a quote from the great Mr. Emmanuel?
Author:  Kim [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Alain,


The point of this experiment was only to determine if there was any significant and permanent movement in the wood when exposed to the excess heat, I did not want to actually glue the top yet.

It was important for me to have a datum from which to make the comparison. This was the purpose of ensuring the set was well jointed prior to cooking. I will leave things a while, re-joint the set, and do it all again to see what happens.

As for the quote, it is just one I penned in a post the other day, I liked it so I thought I may as well use it in the signature for a while. I really do like my old Maton

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Billy T [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I guess that proves the stabilisation point!
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Right on Kim, another experiment in the name of science, if you will!

I'm curious, what kind of glue did you use?

Great quote, by the way... I'd love to own a Maton myself.... Maybe I could play more like Tommy?... Nah...
Author:  Kim [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
No glue yet Al, just whatch'in the unrestricted shot joint for movement at this stage. I can say that the top is very well quarted, seasoned, and quite even in grain count right across. The only reason I see that it would have been down graded to AA would be the presents of mild pink discolouration down the centre edge of the boards.

Glad you like the quote But believe me mate, I can tell you from experience that while owning a Maton is a very good thing, for me it removes yet another excuse from the arsenal of why I cannot play well at all

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gotcha! 'I see' said the blind man, as he fell down the stairs...

Re-reading your original thread, I realize that this night shift has left me somewhat dazed and confused... Don't mind me, mate!...

Author:  Kim [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmmm Anyone else cooking tops or is it just one of those things that went out of fashion? If you did do it for a while when there was some noise being made about the process, is there any reason why you no longer do???

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, I cook my tops, both to gently season them and to set the pitch. I've done it with both spruce and cedar, and in all cases, even with nice air-dried wood, I still get a few pitch bubbles that have come up.

I was once cautioned that I should let the top sets sit for a couple of weeks or more before joining them. I decided to do a bit of an experiment of my own. I cooked two sets, shot and candled both of them a day or so later, then joined one set. The joint held fine and the other set that hadn't been joined still had a light tight seam even a few weeks later. So, I think that once the wood reaches moisture equilibrium once again with the shop, it's good to go.

Best,

Michael


Best,

Michael
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for posting your experiment. Sort of eye opening, at least for me.
Author:  Greg [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interesting. Wouldn't they turn out better with some melted butter and garlic?
Author:  Kim [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Hesh1956] It also convinced me that I needed to clean my oven since the tops in my shop smell like roast beef now........ Seriously.....[/QUOTE]

Hesh,

Maybe you should try doing a Baked Alaska in the oven before you do the wood next time, might be nice topped some with maple syrup and a sprinkle of walnut, yum.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll wait untill my Mother i law's next visit to cook my tops, she loves cooking and makes killer apple pies!

Great thread Kim, you're convincing me to start cookin' my good man!
Author:  Brock Poling [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Yeah I cooked a few during the "cooking tops" thread. One was Lutz and one was Carpathian.

The Lutz top is on my guitar that I showed pictures of from the finishers last week. It was thicknessed and joined after it was cooked and about a month later.

Did I notice any difference? Can't say, but the thread convinced me of the benefit of cooking your tops. It also convinced me that I needed to clean my oven since the tops in my shop smell like roast beef now........ Seriously.....[/QUOTE]

I am not sure that you would ever "notice" it in a finished guitar. I think one of the most important things it does is shrink the wood so the top is more stable from extreme humidity swings.

Other benefits have been claimed but the shrinking thing seems to be the main one.

I have started doing it.
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